1
00:00:45,119 --> 00:00:21,550
[Music]

2
00:00:46,889 --> 00:00:45,129
hello this is will you pull it and

3
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:46,899
you're listening to the paranormal UK

4
00:00:50,639 --> 00:00:47,890
radio network

5
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:50,649
the UK's biggest paranormal Network and

6
00:00:55,020 --> 00:00:52,690
this is paranormal dimensions with David

7
00:00:57,359 --> 00:00:55,030
Young welcome to another show Thank You

8
00:01:01,139 --> 00:00:57,369
William for that sir intro very nice

9
00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:01,149
you've used to do that for me as you

10
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:02,320
know I've been doing some calls out for

11
00:01:06,410 --> 00:01:03,850
people that I've got to call out for

12
00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:06,420
Bryan McMullen and Glasgow Scotland UK

13
00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:10,720
he's in the UK Maureen waters Newcastle

14
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:13,630
upon Tyne UK and another good friend of

15
00:01:18,180 --> 00:01:16,330
mine Peter Robbins in New York us he was

16
00:01:19,490 --> 00:01:18,190
a guest on the third guest I had on this

17
00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:19,500
show

18
00:01:26,399 --> 00:01:22,710
now I've got some as you know we

19
00:01:28,230 --> 00:01:26,409
unfortunately lost Stan Friedman couple

20
00:01:29,940 --> 00:01:28,240
of just over a week or so going there

21
00:01:32,609 --> 00:01:29,950
and I've got another good friend of his

22
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:32,619
as a guest today Donald Schmidt who's

23
00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:35,530
kindly dropped everything and the great

24
00:01:39,389 --> 00:01:37,030
to come on the show and give us a

25
00:01:41,490 --> 00:01:39,399
insight into his own work and his

26
00:01:43,499 --> 00:01:41,500
friendship with staying so I'd like to

27
00:01:44,729 --> 00:01:43,509
wait double time I introduced don't rush

28
00:01:47,669 --> 00:01:44,739
me done

29
00:01:50,309 --> 00:01:47,679
hello David so nice to be with you this

30
00:01:53,249 --> 00:01:50,319
evening for you it's mid-afternoon for

31
00:01:56,219 --> 00:01:53,259
me here it is most women look is he okay

32
00:01:58,499 --> 00:01:56,229
it's actually gorgeous mid 60s and low

33
00:02:02,820 --> 00:01:58,509
humidity and rights we've got a very

34
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:02,830
rainy spring yeah quite a lot of unusual

35
00:02:07,380 --> 00:02:04,410
weather over the stage there haven't you

36
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:07,390
yes but at least sadly for all the

37
00:02:12,210 --> 00:02:10,450
tornadic activity just south in the

38
00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:12,220
southern states from here so we've been

39
00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:13,540
spared we've been fortunate in that

40
00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:15,209
regard

41
00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:19,510
anyway I was watch the second-oldest is

42
00:02:23,570 --> 00:02:22,209
show note Stan Friedman was a very good

43
00:02:27,119 --> 00:02:23,580
friend of yours

44
00:02:28,589 --> 00:02:27,129
yes to say with that I mean how did you

45
00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:28,599
hear the news because it was a quite a

46
00:02:33,390 --> 00:02:31,030
shock and it seemed to be a bit of a

47
00:02:36,809 --> 00:02:33,400
rumour mill at first on Facebook though

48
00:02:42,140 --> 00:02:36,819
I heard it well it was but even before

49
00:02:46,229 --> 00:02:42,150
that because last year at the Roswell

50
00:02:48,509 --> 00:02:46,239
festival in July we had a farewell party

51
00:02:49,289 --> 00:02:48,519
for Stan he had announced officially his

52
00:02:54,449 --> 00:02:49,299
retirement

53
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:54,459
yeah and we had a party on

54
00:03:00,330 --> 00:02:57,250
Thursday evening before the festival

55
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:00,340
even kicked off and I stood at the

56
00:03:06,509 --> 00:03:03,730
podium and like I spoke my personal

57
00:03:10,259 --> 00:03:06,519
feelings and shared some questions with

58
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:10,269
the the audience and it was very

59
00:03:17,339 --> 00:03:13,450
heartfelt in that we knew that Stan was

60
00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:17,349
ailing at the time and that he felt that

61
00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:19,840
with whatever time he had left that he

62
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:23,110
liked to spend it with family and and

63
00:03:27,870 --> 00:03:26,170
then when it it appeared as though his

64
00:03:32,009 --> 00:03:27,880
health had leveled off that he had

65
00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:32,019
improved and he announced that he once

66
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:34,420
again would be returning for this

67
00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:37,930
festival or whether the fourth of July

68
00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:41,590
weekend here in the States and so we had

69
00:03:46,289 --> 00:03:43,390
exchanged some phone calls and I was

70
00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:46,299
looking forward to once again seeing him

71
00:03:51,180 --> 00:03:49,120
and then I get this this frantic phone

72
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:51,190
call from the deputy director at the

73
00:04:01,229 --> 00:03:56,650
Museum Karen that that I hear that Stan

74
00:04:06,270 --> 00:04:01,239
had passed away and you know I had no

75
00:04:10,860 --> 00:04:06,280
idea and let me call Marianna Stan's

76
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:10,870
wife and at least here directly and

77
00:04:15,629 --> 00:04:12,810
hopefully Stan will pick up the phone

78
00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:15,639
and so I called the direct line and I

79
00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:22,840
got Marianas voicemail and that caused

80
00:04:28,260 --> 00:04:25,630
pause to begin with because normally

81
00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:28,270
Stan I thought he should have been home

82
00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:30,820
based on his schedule and then when he

83
00:04:34,879 --> 00:04:32,680
did not pick up and then when she did

84
00:04:38,580 --> 00:04:34,889
not pick up I feared the worst and

85
00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:38,590
within the next half hour we confirmed

86
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:43,030
that he had a speaking engagement in

87
00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:46,450
Columbus Ohio just the evening before

88
00:04:55,589 --> 00:04:51,280
and as he was connecting through the

89
00:04:57,690 --> 00:04:55,599
airport in Toronto and my news fan had

90
00:05:01,700 --> 00:04:57,700
some heart surgery just three years

91
00:05:04,050 --> 00:05:01,710
before he had some stents put in and

92
00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:04,060
that was the first time he missed the

93
00:05:10,390 --> 00:05:08,030
festival in Roswell so we even

94
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:10,400
piped-in or her speakerphone that the

95
00:05:16,860 --> 00:05:13,450
audience could wish him all get Wells

96
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:16,870
for his quick recovery at that time and

97
00:05:25,150 --> 00:05:19,730
so to learn that it was a heart attack

98
00:05:26,530 --> 00:05:25,160
and what really you know this made me

99
00:05:29,740 --> 00:05:26,540
with the fact that once again he was

100
00:05:33,250 --> 00:05:29,750
traveling alone 84 years old yeah and

101
00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:33,260
having a heart condition and also

102
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:36,680
suffering from a few other ailments and

103
00:05:44,020 --> 00:05:40,610
that there he was traveling alone and I

104
00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:44,030
you know yeah we can do a lot of should

105
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:47,030
have and would have but he went out

106
00:05:51,310 --> 00:05:49,610
doing what he loved to do he pushed

107
00:05:55,540 --> 00:05:51,320
himself to the limit it seems to me you

108
00:05:58,690 --> 00:05:55,550
know I mean for and and he had mentioned

109
00:06:02,710 --> 00:05:58,700
the Kathleen a Martin just a week before

110
00:06:04,450 --> 00:06:02,720
and he was feeling very tired yeah you

111
00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:04,460
sit down aloft show XE because I did

112
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:06,710
have her on the previous show and she

113
00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:08,210
was saying that much the same that he

114
00:06:12,220 --> 00:06:10,550
had told her that I mean to be honest so

115
00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:12,230
to the likes of me I didn't know that he

116
00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:14,030
was actually suffering you know I

117
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:15,500
thought maybe he's got another ten years

118
00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:17,450
of him and you see being around you know

119
00:06:20,890 --> 00:06:20,300
it was quite something to talk to the

120
00:06:23,650 --> 00:06:20,900
likes of me

121
00:06:26,140 --> 00:06:23,660
you know know that's why when he

122
00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:26,150
announced his retirement last year we we

123
00:06:31,990 --> 00:06:27,860
felt it was for the better

124
00:06:34,690 --> 00:06:32,000
we felt that he he most likely had a

125
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:34,700
limited time and that he should

126
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:37,610
certainly spend it with with the family

127
00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:41,360
and for whatever reason whether he asked

128
00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:43,670
the doctor you know should I give it one

129
00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:47,390
more year or Memorial yeah yeah I mean

130
00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:49,460
you could check his schedule he was

131
00:06:54,670 --> 00:06:52,790
newly booked for conferences you know my

132
00:06:57,820 --> 00:06:54,680
phone is some amazing we knew the it

133
00:07:01,990 --> 00:06:57,830
retired was he still booking himself in

134
00:07:03,910 --> 00:07:02,000
circumference season saw that he had one

135
00:07:07,210 --> 00:07:03,920
more good fight as they would say left

136
00:07:10,330 --> 00:07:07,220
in him yeah he was he was willing to

137
00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:10,340
give it give it his all and and Stan was

138
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:13,220
never one there was a cancel talk he was

139
00:07:19,420 --> 00:07:16,490
always you know johnny-on-the-spot he

140
00:07:21,370 --> 00:07:19,430
you know he relished the opportunities

141
00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:21,380
he loved the audience he's he

142
00:07:27,430 --> 00:07:24,020
the map as far as any love the good

143
00:07:30,670 --> 00:07:27,440
debate as you know David he was one to

144
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:30,680
turn away such an opportunity

145
00:07:33,730 --> 00:07:32,810
yeah what is evil science of Kathy lost

146
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:33,740
last week

147
00:07:37,420 --> 00:07:35,690
oh I had about probably about three or

148
00:07:39,610 --> 00:07:37,430
four minutes to speak with you men all

149
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:39,620
in all but in that three or four minutes

150
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:41,090
he gave you his full attention

151
00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:42,650
you didn't think that it was is what you

152
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:44,860
know wasn't sort of only halfway there

153
00:07:49,300 --> 00:07:47,690
and yeah you sort of appreciate that

154
00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:49,310
from someone that actually listening to

155
00:07:56,950 --> 00:07:51,380
what you're saying probably things he'd

156
00:08:00,280 --> 00:07:56,960
heard a million times before yes that's

157
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:00,290
why he was so much in that regard like

158
00:08:06,490 --> 00:08:03,170
dr. J Allen Hynek in that you could

159
00:08:09,390 --> 00:08:06,500
approach him with the most mundane you

160
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:09,400
know you know light in the sky you know

161
00:08:17,530 --> 00:08:13,370
story hmm siding and he would you know

162
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:17,540
you know give you all due respect and he

163
00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:19,850
would discuss you know the event with

164
00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:22,220
you and you know that was the wonderful

165
00:08:27,670 --> 00:08:24,620
thing about them that they realized that

166
00:08:31,060 --> 00:08:27,680
they were discussing something that to

167
00:08:33,130 --> 00:08:31,070
the novice to would be explaining you

168
00:08:34,990 --> 00:08:33,140
know a genuine experience on their part

169
00:08:37,089 --> 00:08:35,000
and they treated it as though it was

170
00:08:39,219 --> 00:08:37,099
genuine whether it was Hynek or

171
00:08:41,469 --> 00:08:39,229
treatment they didn't just brush it off

172
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:41,479
and while you know I could you come back

173
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:43,250
and talk to me later or I really don't

174
00:08:46,780 --> 00:08:44,210
have time for that

175
00:08:48,940 --> 00:08:46,790
yeah I never saw Reddick do that and I

176
00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:48,950
never saw Freeman do that and that is

177
00:08:54,730 --> 00:08:52,340
much to both of their credits hmm that's

178
00:08:57,220 --> 00:08:54,740
why both of them you know have left

179
00:08:59,740 --> 00:08:57,230
tremendous Boyd's now in their passing

180
00:09:02,230 --> 00:08:59,750
oh definitely yeah yeah it's over he

181
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:02,240
said but we we have got his legacy of

182
00:09:07,780 --> 00:09:05,090
the research and the books that he's

183
00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:07,790
left us so it's just say is the I think

184
00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:09,710
he's just a suddenness of it all the oak

185
00:09:15,310 --> 00:09:12,160
going just like that just like a

186
00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:15,320
lookalike going out isn't it well with

187
00:09:20,770 --> 00:09:18,080
Hynek we had a good year hmm and

188
00:09:23,650 --> 00:09:20,780
preparing for the end with the brain

189
00:09:25,390 --> 00:09:23,660
tumor the brain cancer yeah and all the

190
00:09:27,940 --> 00:09:25,400
subsequent treatment and the failed

191
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:27,950
efforts in trying to buy him some time

192
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:30,170
but as you just mentioned David would

193
00:09:35,290 --> 00:09:32,330
stand I mean it was a complete shock I

194
00:09:37,630 --> 00:09:35,300
mean where as I described that we

195
00:09:39,970 --> 00:09:37,640
or you know for the better part of an

196
00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:39,980
hour we are frantically making calls and

197
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:42,590
trying to determine whether it was true

198
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:45,410
and hoping that it was nothing but you

199
00:09:51,310 --> 00:09:47,810
know one of those rumors I even hearken

200
00:09:54,430 --> 00:09:51,320
back to that time when the late comedian

201
00:09:57,940 --> 00:09:54,440
Bob Hope and it was a member of Congress

202
00:10:00,070 --> 00:09:57,950
here in Washington you know made the

203
00:10:03,790 --> 00:10:00,080
premature announcement that he had just

204
00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:03,800
received word that Hollywood comedian

205
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:06,080
and major star Bob Hope had just passed

206
00:10:13,660 --> 00:10:10,010
away and he hadn't it was just yeah yeah

207
00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:13,670
you think it knows I know it was bad

208
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:16,460
rumor and thank God for the moment yes

209
00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:19,610
so we had that you know that that that

210
00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:22,790
you know that genuine hope that maybe

211
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:24,080
that indeed would be the case would

212
00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:26,450
stand Freedman as well you do get a lot

213
00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:28,460
of fake news on Facebook what about me

214
00:10:31,930 --> 00:10:30,110
Facebook really it's up with all the

215
00:10:33,430 --> 00:10:31,940
different reports a few people saying

216
00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:33,440
that can't be true and there's somebody

217
00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:35,690
even asked me because I put a post up if

218
00:10:38,890 --> 00:10:37,220
somebody said even to me are you sure

219
00:10:40,270 --> 00:10:38,900
he's just been verified and I said well

220
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:40,280
as far as I know he's being verified

221
00:10:47,290 --> 00:10:45,050
yeah yes all very unfortunate but so as

222
00:10:48,610 --> 00:10:47,300
you know the whole Facebook that's all

223
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:48,620
everyone was talking about you know cuz

224
00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:50,110
it was such a high heat

225
00:10:56,290 --> 00:10:52,820
but he certainly didn't live a very

226
00:11:01,060 --> 00:10:56,300
fruitful eighty four years he

227
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:01,070
accomplished he traveled he you know did

228
00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:07,120
more to spearhead the authenticity the

229
00:11:13,630 --> 00:11:12,110
very acceptance of UFOs being real and I

230
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:13,640
know he like to always say that flying

231
00:11:18,790 --> 00:11:16,640
saucers were real getting back to you

232
00:11:21,970 --> 00:11:18,800
know even a beyond unidentified flying

233
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:21,980
out of my playing obvious are real yeah

234
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,470
there's one identified yeah but him to

235
00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:26,480
take it that step further and saying no

236
00:11:30,130 --> 00:11:28,700
we know that we're being visited that

237
00:11:32,410 --> 00:11:30,140
were bit we you know we're being visited

238
00:11:33,310 --> 00:11:32,420
by a technology by an intelligence off

239
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,320
the planet

240
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:35,600
and that he would refer to the cover-up

241
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:37,910
as a cosmic Watergate as he called it

242
00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:41,810
and like to coin these praises and you

243
00:11:44,890 --> 00:11:43,580
know don't bother me with the facts I've

244
00:11:49,020 --> 00:11:44,900
already made up my mind

245
00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:49,030
yeah always the negative is and he and

246
00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:52,140
again he loved to go into the arena of

247
00:11:56,430 --> 00:11:53,380
debate

248
00:11:58,980 --> 00:11:56,440
he loved the challenge not the skeptics

249
00:12:00,840 --> 00:11:58,990
but the scoffers that the bunkers that

250
00:12:03,270 --> 00:12:00,850
peered as though they too had their

251
00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:03,280
minds made up yeah he did answer the

252
00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:05,350
bubblers all bomb debate did knee caught

253
00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:07,750
friend approached frenziedly quite

254
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:11,080
recently didn't he yes ground whether it

255
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:14,530
was Bob Lazar or mj-12 or some of the

256
00:12:21,270 --> 00:12:18,370
aspects of Roswell he he didn't back

257
00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:21,280
down to anyone you had to prove him you

258
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:23,710
know being wrong you had to demonstrate

259
00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:26,770
that he was wrong on a particular issue

260
00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:30,040
and then and only then would he back

261
00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:32,590
down would he then you know essentially

262
00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:35,980
go back to square one and well okay now

263
00:12:43,230 --> 00:12:38,140
why did I believe this why did I fall

264
00:12:49,740 --> 00:12:43,240
for this dummy I'm sure you people the

265
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:49,750
future with what with a phenomenon that

266
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:52,090
is a phenomenon yeah they're just very

267
00:12:58,920 --> 00:12:55,450
definition where we don't have a manual

268
00:13:01,890 --> 00:12:58,930
a an owner's manual a handbook to always

269
00:13:04,110 --> 00:13:01,900
go to when we receive this information

270
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:04,120
or that information and especially when

271
00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:07,440
we're dealing with a possible technology

272
00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:10,870
well beyond their own should we be

273
00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:13,390
surprised that at times it throws us a

274
00:13:20,490 --> 00:13:17,590
curveball that it it it Springs

275
00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:20,500
something on us that we have nothing

276
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:23,590
prior in our lives to resort to to

277
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:26,590
explain you know what it turns out that

278
00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:29,200
many times most times you know to be

279
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:31,870
very prosaic very conventional yeah so

280
00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:34,240
you should we have to have this latitude

281
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:36,760
in that as I described Hynek and and

282
00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:39,820
Friedman that we we we can't dismiss

283
00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:42,670
every story just because we don't like

284
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:46,060
the way it sounds we to always be the

285
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:49,810
investigator first yeah you know and God

286
00:13:57,420 --> 00:13:54,010
knows we explain we come up with 95% of

287
00:13:59,280 --> 00:13:57,430
you know reports that are explainable

288
00:14:02,070 --> 00:13:59,290
but all let's go and take a bit as you

289
00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:02,080
know as we bone instead one just that

290
00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:02,750
one

291
00:14:11,710 --> 00:14:09,380
hardware that finally just blows it

292
00:14:15,130 --> 00:14:11,720
widel not you know I I know what I saw

293
00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:15,140
so you know I don't you can't persuade

294
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:16,700
other people about what you saw but I

295
00:14:22,420 --> 00:14:19,970
know why I saw so when you can say I

296
00:14:26,890 --> 00:14:22,430
know what I saw yeah like the fella same

297
00:14:29,620 --> 00:14:26,900
great and in my case I haven't had an

298
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,630
experience I haven't had a sighting per

299
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:32,240
se I mean we've all seen things in the

300
00:14:38,860 --> 00:14:36,770
sky that maybe defied explanation and we

301
00:14:40,510 --> 00:14:38,870
looked at we look back there we go yeah

302
00:14:43,090 --> 00:14:40,520
that was puzzling now but it doesn't

303
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:43,100
prove it was anything extraterrestrial

304
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:45,010
off the planet but we actually

305
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:47,210
experienced something and you can

306
00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:50,510
honestly say my god what else could it

307
00:14:53,170 --> 00:14:50,990
have been

308
00:14:56,260 --> 00:14:53,180
hmm well you know I'll just show you

309
00:14:57,580 --> 00:14:56,270
quickly why so it was an orange oval

310
00:15:00,640 --> 00:14:57,590
object going across the night sky

311
00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:00,650
pulsating and it was a and that was

312
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,100
around about 1966 66 when the technology

313
00:15:12,910 --> 00:15:10,160
was still rather pristine so to speak

314
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:12,920
and we certainly don't we still don't

315
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,470
use orange lights for any type of

316
00:15:19,690 --> 00:15:17,839
aircraft it wasn't even a light you know

317
00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:19,700
it was like an incandescent light it

318
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:21,200
wasn't like a bright light like a light

319
00:15:25,630 --> 00:15:23,570
bulb it was any different shades of

320
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:25,640
orange pulsating they're completely

321
00:15:31,540 --> 00:15:28,520
Island so and I'm funny enough I've seen

322
00:15:33,579 --> 00:15:31,550
a lot of those reports since I guess we

323
00:15:37,329 --> 00:15:33,589
got to talk about here to do orange orbs

324
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:37,339
I'm gonna have firm Terry's name

325
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:38,990
Terry ray wrote that wrote a book about

326
00:15:44,910 --> 00:15:42,170
the orange orb phenomena I'm hoping to

327
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:44,920
get him on the show in a few weeks

328
00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:47,390
certainly I mean your case could fit

329
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:48,920
right into his ray and maybe he could

330
00:15:55,630 --> 00:15:52,880
help answer more stuff help you draw as

331
00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:55,640
far as some additional conclusions of

332
00:15:59,140 --> 00:15:57,620
what it was and what it was yeah I mean

333
00:16:02,200 --> 00:15:59,150
is it true that the stencil stencil

334
00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:02,210
don't don't think episode assorted a UFO

335
00:16:06,610 --> 00:16:05,630
DD not that he ever considered and

336
00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:06,620
that's the amazing thing

337
00:16:15,579 --> 00:16:11,270
Hynek had that famous for him sighting

338
00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:15,589
he was on a a private aircraft and he

339
00:16:19,510 --> 00:16:16,430
took a picture

340
00:16:22,390 --> 00:16:19,520
of a spherical object outside of you

341
00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:22,400
know the wing the the window the plane

342
00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:25,910
and it was daylight and it appeared to

343
00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:29,000
be you know you know devoid of wings or

344
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:31,070
tail or anything of that sort and then

345
00:16:36,340 --> 00:16:32,810
we learn afterwards that he had two

346
00:16:38,290 --> 00:16:36,350
additional sightings and and there

347
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:38,300
you're talking about you know the the

348
00:16:45,550 --> 00:16:41,630
skeptic who just continuously wrestled

349
00:16:47,620 --> 00:16:45,560
with alternative possibilities that he

350
00:16:48,490 --> 00:16:47,630
couldn't explain it then it truly was

351
00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:48,500
something foreign something

352
00:16:55,150 --> 00:16:51,560
extraordinary but as far as as far as

353
00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:55,160
Stan not that he ever conceded to me I

354
00:17:00,850 --> 00:16:58,610
and I may be totally wrong but he never

355
00:17:04,270 --> 00:17:00,860
acknowledged seeing or having a personal

356
00:17:06,610 --> 00:17:04,280
sighting go no he he was very heavily

357
00:17:09,699 --> 00:17:06,620
into the mj-12 documents I think for a

358
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:09,709
number of years was in a yes yes and he

359
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:11,150
was to the very end

360
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:13,850
and and that was one of the areas that I

361
00:17:21,070 --> 00:17:16,880
took deference with Stan

362
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:21,080
I felt that there were too many elements

363
00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:25,370
within the so-called documents that did

364
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,520
not further substantiate them there were

365
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,400
discrepancies in the baby format

366
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:32,480
discrepancies in the listing of the

367
00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:35,810
twelve some of the information and I was

368
00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:37,700
quick to point out there were elements

369
00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:40,940
within the documents that based on our

370
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:44,180
own Roswell investigation that when we

371
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:49,270
found witnesses when we established new

372
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:52,910
locations and witnesses that validated

373
00:17:59,140 --> 00:17:55,630
certain portions of the mj-12 documents

374
00:18:01,150 --> 00:17:59,150
Stan was the first one I call we had a

375
00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:01,160
standing agreement that whenever he

376
00:18:06,850 --> 00:18:03,950
learned of something that supported our

377
00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:06,860
scenario he would contact us and vice

378
00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:07,480
versa

379
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:10,190
so when there were things that were

380
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:13,520
witnesses that further substantiated the

381
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:16,250
mj-12 documents I was quick to let Stan

382
00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:20,150
know they did to me prove the documents

383
00:18:26,910 --> 00:18:23,260
for the legitimate no I still I still

384
00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:26,920
concede I still believe that they are

385
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:29,790
misinformation documents and

386
00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:31,830
go by the very definition of

387
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:34,620
disinformation they have to have a

388
00:18:42,980 --> 00:18:38,390
semblance of truth to them to

389
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:42,990
essentially establish their own agenda

390
00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:46,170
draw an audience in and then later to be

391
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:52,620
proven incorrect mmm fallacious in that

392
00:18:58,640 --> 00:18:55,380
regard and so there would be a

393
00:19:01,790 --> 00:18:58,650
sprinkling of truth to disinformation

394
00:19:03,530 --> 00:19:01,800
documents of that sort yeah I did a tree

395
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:03,540
and the woods sort of thing you you sort

396
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:06,990
of things take a few folks pages out

397
00:19:10,430 --> 00:19:08,280
there and you don't know what's the

398
00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:10,440
truth in which which is impede in the

399
00:19:16,340 --> 00:19:13,500
end and in the event then you're able

400
00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:16,350
and that researchers investigators are

401
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:20,580
able to establish the genuineness of

402
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:23,340
specific aspects of the Abenaki

403
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:26,820
it's there then intended to then

404
00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:30,510
disqualify themselves by other portions

405
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:34,310
that are inconsistent that discredit

406
00:19:40,850 --> 00:19:37,710
certain portions of the other

407
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:40,860
information so it's all intended to get

408
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:43,110
you essentially to get you in the

409
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:46,530
circular firing squad that you you are

410
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:49,530
never able to fully authenticate the

411
00:19:58,580 --> 00:19:52,490
documents in many ways it serves as a

412
00:20:02,240 --> 00:19:58,590
long-term diversion a distraction and it

413
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:02,250
it prevents you from honing and them

414
00:20:09,050 --> 00:20:05,480
focusing on more legitimate information

415
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:09,060
and as often the purpose at least here

416
00:20:14,030 --> 00:20:10,880
in the states of disinformation

417
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:14,040
documents it is a major diversion major

418
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:16,860
distraction yeah in many ways because

419
00:20:24,580 --> 00:20:20,610
span you know he spent many hours many

420
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:24,590
days many weeks trying to authenticate

421
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:27,630
the documents and it may have been for

422
00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:30,600
that purpose that it it drew him away

423
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:34,440
from the more legitimate aspects of his

424
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:36,630
own investigation yeah indeed I mean

425
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:37,890
there might be people out there not

426
00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:39,150
knowing what we're talking about the

427
00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:41,100
mj-12 documents and I think it's a bit

428
00:20:45,770 --> 00:20:42,780
too detailed to go

429
00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:45,780
- yes think you might need to google it

430
00:20:54,530 --> 00:20:46,590
if you don't know what we're talking

431
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:54,540
about we really ought to get into what

432
00:20:58,790 --> 00:20:56,280
you've been doing done I mean I know

433
00:21:00,140 --> 00:20:58,800
this is a dedication to stand as well

434
00:21:02,810 --> 00:21:00,150
but so you've been doing a lot of

435
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:02,820
important work in in with the Roswell I

436
00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:04,410
tell you a little bit I'll tell you a

437
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:06,900
little story fishermen when I went to

438
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:09,510
Rose away 2013 I booked a picked up a

439
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:11,820
book a book they called witness to

440
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:15,450
Roswell yes it's like a magazine type

441
00:21:18,740 --> 00:21:17,910
book quick and yeah well I had it at the

442
00:21:20,510 --> 00:21:18,750
top of my shelf

443
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:20,520
I sort of look for it and read it and

444
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:23,610
things I kind of forgot about it and

445
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:26,370
then I bought this proper book called

446
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:32,130
witness to Roswell the same original so

447
00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:34,200
I measure that to magazine type document

448
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:39,060
that was an attachment was just an

449
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:41,250
attachment to the main book yes right

450
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:44,670
okay yeah kind of puzzle do the same

451
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,860
thing and I thought maybe that was the

452
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:49,980
first tryout for the book but I kind of

453
00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:52,350
rediscovered it after I've had that

454
00:21:59,390 --> 00:21:54,860
scene up there for a couple years now

455
00:22:01,580 --> 00:21:59,400
well they witness the Roswell was the

456
00:22:02,930 --> 00:22:01,590
number one selling you a book in the

457
00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:02,940
world for three years

458
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:04,740
yeah it's a brilliant book yeah and

459
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:08,130
thank you and it's been optioned it was

460
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:11,340
it was quickly optioned by Bryce Abel

461
00:22:18,020 --> 00:22:15,200
who did the TV series dark skies and

462
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:18,030
it's been optioned for the next motion

463
00:22:27,170 --> 00:22:23,760
picture and the the motion picture as

464
00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:27,180
scripted will be about Stanton Friedman

465
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:32,070
and myself investigations have parallel

466
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,520
have at times been you know in

467
00:22:41,330 --> 00:22:38,400
opposition we have you know at times

468
00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:41,340
debated but more times than not we have

469
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:43,950
worked together we have presented a

470
00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:47,310
unified front on our Roswell

471
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:48,120
investigation

472
00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:50,490
whatever one thing about stand - in that

473
00:22:56,419 --> 00:22:53,700
whenever we would be on a show together

474
00:22:58,940 --> 00:22:56,429
a program or we would do it

475
00:23:02,659 --> 00:22:58,950
comentary together and we would always

476
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:02,669
talk about okay we have to you know

477
00:23:09,019 --> 00:23:05,850
stand together on what we believe are

478
00:23:12,289 --> 00:23:09,029
what we believe in and let's not confuse

479
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:12,299
an audience that's that's not create you

480
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:13,710
know dissension within our own ranks

481
00:23:21,139 --> 00:23:18,330
let's present this united front and we

482
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:21,149
always did no matter what the forum the

483
00:23:25,879 --> 00:23:23,460
matter of what the opportunity we are if

484
00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:25,889
we couldn't be standing together you

485
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,350
know presenting a talk and if it was

486
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:30,720
something either one of us didn't agree

487
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,100
on we still held off we didn't say

488
00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:37,679
anything publicly yeah we who we

489
00:23:42,049 --> 00:23:40,230
disagree but we didn't want the audience

490
00:23:44,210 --> 00:23:42,059
to feel that all there they go again

491
00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:44,220
they're arguing they're debating and

492
00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:47,070
public well again it was it was better

493
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:49,769
to present the professional the

494
00:23:56,749 --> 00:23:52,769
gentlemanly united front as I call it

495
00:23:59,659 --> 00:23:56,759
and we knew but the audience then always

496
00:24:03,200 --> 00:23:59,669
realized that the the main issue the

497
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:03,210
main element that we were presenting as

498
00:24:08,659 --> 00:24:05,580
far as between the two of us together

499
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:08,669
was that Roswell indeed was the recovery

500
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:11,610
the crash of a craft of unknown origin

501
00:24:17,989 --> 00:24:15,330
the robot is recovered and that to this

502
00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:17,999
tape that it still remains the

503
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:21,809
granddaddy of all UFO cases your

504
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:23,460
personal belief he said something

505
00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:25,559
crashed and something and it was idea

506
00:24:32,509 --> 00:24:29,240
bodies yeah I mean I I believe that so I

507
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:32,519
I should point out baby that I always do

508
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:34,740
that I was a complete skeptic on Roswell

509
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:40,470
in fact when Stan who really did the the

510
00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:43,289
stalwart you know research an

511
00:24:48,019 --> 00:24:45,539
investigation on the very first Roswell

512
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,029
book Roswell incident that came about

513
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:49,679
1980 yeah

514
00:24:55,519 --> 00:24:52,470
that was written by Charles Berlitz and

515
00:24:58,810 --> 00:24:55,529
stands partner at that time William

516
00:25:02,330 --> 00:24:58,820
Moore and and Stan only received a small

517
00:25:04,399 --> 00:25:02,340
acknowledgement in the book and I always

518
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,409
felt that was unfair because I knew from

519
00:25:09,019 --> 00:25:06,600
the very beginning that Stan did most of

520
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:09,029
the interviews he did most of the travel

521
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:10,260
most of the legwork

522
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:12,270
he did most of the phone interviews he

523
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:16,770
tracked these people down and I didn't I

524
00:25:22,909 --> 00:25:18,510
didn't even buy a copy of the book

525
00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:22,919
because up until 1985 I even brought a a

526
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:26,160
small article where I just basically put

527
00:25:32,289 --> 00:25:29,280
out a public position that I I could not

528
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:32,299
accept that something of that magnitude

529
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,490
could be kept the secret for all that

530
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:37,919
time I just didn't feel I just didn't

531
00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:39,960
see how you know that with all the

532
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:42,780
whistleblowers and people who were

533
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:44,940
always quick to go to the press with a

534
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:47,760
news story were able to keep this under

535
00:25:53,270 --> 00:25:50,970
wraps all that time and a few years

536
00:25:56,780 --> 00:25:53,280
later and it was right after Heineken

537
00:26:00,320 --> 00:25:56,790
passed away at 86 and then Stan was

538
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:00,330
giving a lecture at Lakeland College in

539
00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:02,130
northern Illinois just north of Chicago

540
00:26:10,730 --> 00:26:06,270
and I was only an hour and a half away

541
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:10,740
and I told Stan you know if I could help

542
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:13,919
about with the lecture and you know I

543
00:26:20,180 --> 00:26:16,919
would be there and I was backstage

544
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:20,190
afterwards that I had planned to

545
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:23,100
confront Stan and ask him that if he

546
00:26:30,169 --> 00:26:25,980
felt that they had taken the Rozell

547
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:30,179
investigation to its zenith they have

548
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:33,000
taken it as far as they could and I was

549
00:26:38,419 --> 00:26:35,640
quite surprised when Stan responded well

550
00:26:40,490 --> 00:26:38,429
no Don actually I'm sure there are

551
00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:40,500
hundreds of witnesses we just don't have

552
00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:41,790
the manpower we don't have the

553
00:26:47,539 --> 00:26:44,520
wherewithal and this is long before the

554
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:47,549
internet and in that regard and being

555
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:50,030
able to track people down online and

556
00:26:58,159 --> 00:26:52,530
most of it involved you know just a

557
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:58,169
tedious a painstaking effort in tracking

558
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:00,720
witnesses down and so I asked well then

559
00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:03,120
could you use some help and he we spoke

560
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:05,940
by all means you know whatever you could

561
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:09,809
do to help so I I still was a complete

562
00:27:17,690 --> 00:27:13,410
skeptic but in making the first trip

563
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:17,700
down to Roswell in February of 89 so

564
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:19,710
this was in the fall of 88 I approached

565
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:22,799
Stan he says welcome to the hunt you

566
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:24,190
know by all means

567
00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:27,850
I love your help in all this and then by

568
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:30,630
actually going to New Mexico and

569
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:35,200
speaking to one firsthand witness after

570
00:27:40,290 --> 00:27:38,800
another and then describing first hand

571
00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:40,300
to my face

572
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:42,820
the unusual characteristics of the

573
00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:46,210
wreckage the strange material that they

574
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:48,790
held in their hands that defy

575
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,490
conventional explanation even up to

576
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:54,240
today what I want and you know

577
00:27:59,070 --> 00:27:57,010
describing the exact same you know

578
00:28:01,800 --> 00:27:59,080
nearly indestructible paper-thin

579
00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:01,810
material that you either could cut you

580
00:28:05,940 --> 00:28:03,460
couldn't burn even a bullet wouldn't

581
00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:05,950
penetrate and then the memory material

582
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:09,220
that you also couldn't you couldn't have

583
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:12,040
any effect as far as in trying to dent

584
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:15,370
or or scratch or penetrate with a bullet

585
00:28:21,390 --> 00:28:19,450
and listen to these witnesses all very

586
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:21,400
believable and whether they were

587
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:25,360
civilian or military and I we came away

588
00:28:30,750 --> 00:28:28,450
glowing my god what if we're wrong

589
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:30,760
what if these people are describing to

590
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:33,240
us you know the genuine recovery of

591
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:35,530
something manufacturing off the planet

592
00:28:40,290 --> 00:28:37,930
and we need to get back down here as

593
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:40,300
soon as possible so that was in February

594
00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:42,910
so in April two months later we were

595
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:46,840
back and hunt just intensified to the

596
00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:50,890
point that within a year we were talking

597
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:54,340
about writing our first book and that

598
00:29:00,660 --> 00:28:56,980
would become the book that was made into

599
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:00,670
the Roswell movie and so that's how

600
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:04,690
quickly things accelerated to the point

601
00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:08,250
that by the time the movie came out in

602
00:29:17,670 --> 00:29:13,740
1994 we had interviewed over 300 new

603
00:29:19,530 --> 00:29:17,680
witnesses beyond what Stan and Bill

604
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:19,540
Moore had done leading a Perazzo

605
00:29:23,130 --> 00:29:22,090
incident did you definitely know to come

606
00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:23,140
across the knee of the fear factor

607
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:25,420
people frightened to talk because

608
00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:27,850
they've been threatened next absolutely

609
00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:29,560
David I can tell you

610
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,870
more times than not we had reluctant

611
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:33,760
witnesses now mind you these were people

612
00:29:40,350 --> 00:29:38,110
who they didn't come to us we we had a

613
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:40,360
search them out we had to track them

614
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:42,820
down and as I was describing it was at a

615
00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:48,910
time when we had to actually do credit

616
00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:50,980
checks on these people we checked it

617
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:53,800
they still had pilots licenses so we

618
00:29:59,610 --> 00:29:56,170
went through our certification we went

619
00:30:03,900 --> 00:29:59,620
through motor vehicle we we did reunion

620
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:03,910
list as far as military as far as units

621
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:05,770
that were having reunions that we would

622
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:08,140
actually go to the hotels and post

623
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:10,570
notices in the lobby of the hotels that

624
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:12,610
we were in room such-and-such

625
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:14,740
and if you had any information regarding

626
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:18,610
what transpired at Roswell in 1947

627
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:21,370
we'd respect your confidentiality your

628
00:30:25,410 --> 00:30:23,290
anonymity but you could please could you

629
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:25,420
please talk to us could you share with

630
00:30:30,450 --> 00:30:27,250
us whatever recollections whatever

631
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:30,460
recall you had on the incident and one

632
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:33,310
witness leading to another and so-and-so

633
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:34,930
would say well you know who you really

634
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:37,600
need to talk to who was out you know and

635
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,510
the hanger when a lot of this transpired

636
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:42,640
and when we were ordered to stand guard

637
00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:45,790
outside a building 84 and you know

638
00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:47,800
so-and-so was on the other end of the

639
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:50,230
hanger at that time well can you help us

640
00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:52,780
find him well I last you know last

641
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:55,420
information I have they were in Ohio and

642
00:31:00,900 --> 00:30:57,730
then well that would help us you know

643
00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:00,910
you know zero in at least in respective

644
00:31:07,290 --> 00:31:04,870
state but again we were our phone bills

645
00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:07,300
alone we're averaging about a thousand

646
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:11,260
dollars a month because get in a Bob you

647
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:13,450
know tracking and talking to a lot of

648
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:17,200
people who could help us zero in on a

649
00:31:24,060 --> 00:31:21,100
particular town or a city and then what

650
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:24,070
you would find them how more times than

651
00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:26,020
not they were reluctant to talk to you

652
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:28,270
and David how often they went the first

653
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:30,250
words out of their mouth would be how

654
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:33,940
did you find me who told you about me

655
00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:37,210
and then it would take repeated phone

656
00:31:43,710 --> 00:31:39,940
calls in trying to gain their confidence

657
00:31:48,450 --> 00:31:43,720
and even over the phone we were just a

658
00:31:50,610 --> 00:31:48,460
voice and we we made it a rule that we

659
00:31:52,049 --> 00:31:50,620
like to speak to the witnesses face to

660
00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:52,059
face so

661
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:54,820
and we found ourselves traveling not

662
00:32:01,950 --> 00:31:58,450
just to New Mexico but to Texas to Ohio

663
00:32:04,889 --> 00:32:01,960
to Arizona Nevada state of Washington

664
00:32:06,989 --> 00:32:04,899
state of Montana New York all many of

665
00:32:10,109 --> 00:32:06,999
them retired in Florida so we were

666
00:32:11,999 --> 00:32:10,119
spending a lot of time in Florida and we

667
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:12,009
would be knocking on doors and many

668
00:32:18,930 --> 00:32:15,519
times blindly not even expecting them to

669
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:18,940
allow us in to chat to even do an

670
00:32:25,349 --> 00:32:23,289
interview and and more times than not we

671
00:32:27,690 --> 00:32:25,359
would get the door closed on us I have

672
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:27,700
nothing to say I have nothing more to

673
00:32:33,719 --> 00:32:32,080
say about 1947 or surprisingly before we

674
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:33,729
would even bring it up they would say

675
00:32:40,739 --> 00:32:37,679
well I'll talk about anything except

676
00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:40,749
1947 because I am nothing more to say

677
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:42,700
about yeah in fact I don't think a lot

678
00:32:46,709 --> 00:32:45,039
of people realize when you write a book

679
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:46,719
like you've written a witness to Roswell

680
00:32:51,719 --> 00:32:48,849
or any others like this the research

681
00:32:53,940 --> 00:32:51,729
that goes into it and the cost in the

682
00:32:55,769 --> 00:32:53,950
the traveling around and the telephone

683
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:55,779
calls like you say at $1,000 a month

684
00:33:01,680 --> 00:32:58,960
it's it's it's amazing isn't it the cost

685
00:33:03,450 --> 00:33:01,690
to add up and I mean certainly in some

686
00:33:06,690 --> 00:33:03,460
ways someone what complain the book cost

687
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:06,700
$20 or whatever you think well it's cost

688
00:33:09,959 --> 00:33:08,769
an awful lot more more than that sir to

689
00:33:13,469 --> 00:33:09,969
do with the research that you're reading

690
00:33:17,099 --> 00:33:13,479
about so and when you published in the

691
00:33:21,539 --> 00:33:17,109
past if it was a $20 book you get let me

692
00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:21,549
make a couple dollars retail sales now

693
00:33:25,109 --> 00:33:23,830
you're lucky you make 50 cents yeah when

694
00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:25,119
I my friend well I'll tell if you've

695
00:33:30,029 --> 00:33:27,580
heard of John Hanson to rush the haunted

696
00:33:32,909 --> 00:33:30,039
skies books he says yes thousands of

697
00:33:34,409 --> 00:33:32,919
pounds in debt but he's so dedicated to

698
00:33:36,629 --> 00:33:34,419
write and they put the books don't get

699
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:36,639
in the books out there that so he just

700
00:33:41,159 --> 00:33:38,529
basically you'll never retain that REO

701
00:33:44,249 --> 00:33:41,169
get that money back that's it's one

702
00:33:46,769 --> 00:33:44,259
thing if you're a stephen king or a Tom

703
00:33:49,139 --> 00:33:46,779
Clancy where you essentially write

704
00:33:50,969 --> 00:33:49,149
fiction yeah we don't have to conduct

705
00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:50,979
all the research you don't have the law

706
00:33:56,219 --> 00:33:53,109
of all the miles it's speaking to

707
00:33:58,229 --> 00:33:56,229
witnesses attract no horses for your

708
00:33:59,249 --> 00:33:58,239
information anyways any research you

709
00:34:00,869 --> 00:33:59,259
need you can see in front of you

710
00:34:03,570 --> 00:34:00,879
computer into a cone you this basically

711
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:03,580
you would guess and and in the past you

712
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:05,650
you know it took year

713
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:08,590
to write a book to compile enough data

714
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:12,010
and then you had to decide okay now when

715
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,090
do I cut it off

716
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:15,760
when do I finally sit down and start

717
00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:19,090
writing at the expense of conducting the

718
00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:21,669
further research and with Roz Oh Roz

719
00:34:26,490 --> 00:34:23,710
Mose we always said we were racing the

720
00:34:30,450 --> 00:34:26,500
Undertaker we we still would have to sit

721
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,460
down and devote a much more time to

722
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:33,760
actually writing the actual book but in

723
00:34:39,899 --> 00:34:36,550
the meantime witnesses were passing away

724
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:39,909
they were they were going they were

725
00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:42,250
getting away from us and I can't tell

726
00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:46,060
you David the frustration of how often

727
00:34:51,659 --> 00:34:49,480
we would find the witness through all

728
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:51,669
this pain staking effort we would

729
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:54,970
finally locate the whereabouts of a

730
00:34:59,730 --> 00:34:57,010
potential witness and we would have the

731
00:35:02,640 --> 00:34:59,740
family tell us well sorry to tell you

732
00:35:07,590 --> 00:35:02,650
but you know my husband just passed away

733
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:07,600
a year ago or my dad just died a couple

734
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:12,130
months ago we actually had a wife tell

735
00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:16,050
us on just returning from the funeral

736
00:35:24,810 --> 00:35:19,270
and you realize that for the sake of

737
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,820
some weeks some months a year and that

738
00:35:32,670 --> 00:35:26,800
information is gone forever

739
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:32,680
hmm finality of it and to most people

740
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:35,650
have never been there most people will

741
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:38,770
sit and critique a game from the

742
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:42,450
sidelines for never having played it and

743
00:35:47,370 --> 00:35:45,070
they're quick to almost what you should

744
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:47,380
have done it could have done and why did

745
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:52,810
you well we do it and our own cost we do

746
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,690
it at our own expense we write books and

747
00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:57,760
then we get criticized well you're doing

748
00:36:02,130 --> 00:35:59,710
this just to write books you're doing

749
00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:02,140
this just to make money well I don't see

750
00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:04,870
you contributing to our research I don't

751
00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:07,990
see you offering to help and God knows

752
00:36:14,610 --> 00:36:13,120
we've had many a a Monday Morning

753
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:14,620
Quarterback as they would call here in

754
00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:15,280
the States

755
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:17,980
we'll have offered to help and then a

756
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:19,210
month later well

757
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:21,550
you offered to talk to a neighbor of

758
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:23,410
yours who may have been involved have

759
00:36:30,839 --> 00:36:26,650
you have you chatted with them yet well

760
00:36:32,670 --> 00:36:30,849
no no no it's on my my my my my my list

761
00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:32,680
I need to talk to them before they die

762
00:36:38,130 --> 00:36:35,740
yes and then and then they never do they

763
00:36:39,930 --> 00:36:38,140
still never did mm-hmm yeah fun do you

764
00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:39,940
realize what the costs are involved you

765
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:41,830
know doing a book like this oh really

766
00:36:52,530 --> 00:36:49,119
I do appreciate that amazing now go on

767
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:52,540
to yeah with the road there were bodies

768
00:36:58,410 --> 00:36:56,380
retrieved no doubt yes yes now you

769
00:37:00,540 --> 00:36:58,420
remember the film that came out of India

770
00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:00,550
in the mid 80s the alien autopsy which

771
00:37:05,010 --> 00:37:03,550
fooled everybody for some time I was one

772
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:05,020
of the ones I got fooled to play it too

773
00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:08,020
well did you get full Bible no in fact

774
00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:10,900
we immediate much days credit Philip

775
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:16,900
mantle was sending us skills images from

776
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:20,560
the video I call it a video because

777
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,210
that's all we've ever seen a video and

778
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:27,660
we would show those images to our

779
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:30,660
firsthand witnesses to the bodies and

780
00:37:36,450 --> 00:37:34,089
the fact that not even one of them even

781
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,460
suggest there was anything close that's

782
00:37:41,490 --> 00:37:38,800
all we had to hear no I I mean they were

783
00:37:44,130 --> 00:37:41,500
the authorities they were there and when

784
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:44,140
and for them to say no no this is like

785
00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:46,750
this is like nothing I encountered this

786
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:51,430
isn't what I saw back in 1947 so we we

787
00:37:56,430 --> 00:37:53,770
stood back and we allowed as far as that

788
00:37:59,099 --> 00:37:56,440
press conference in London where it was

789
00:38:01,710 --> 00:37:59,109
first released and then one of our

790
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:01,720
people one of the people who was working

791
00:38:07,380 --> 00:38:04,150
with us at that time Kent Jeffrey he

792
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:07,390
actually flew over to London was there

793
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:10,030
at the press conference the release of

794
00:38:17,609 --> 00:38:13,330
the film and he walked out when he said

795
00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:17,619
that it was that unconvincing that he

796
00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:20,200
walked away calling us and saying Don

797
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:22,750
you guys are right it's it's not

798
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:25,150
anything as the witnesses described and

799
00:38:31,530 --> 00:38:28,450
that's when I immediately contacted

800
00:38:33,059 --> 00:38:31,540
Philip because when he and Michael has

801
00:38:36,779 --> 00:38:33,069
been from Germany

802
00:38:40,409 --> 00:38:36,789
were immediately calling it the Roswell

803
00:38:42,259 --> 00:38:40,419
autopsy we asked them in fact we

804
00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:42,269
insisted that they would not call it

805
00:38:48,929 --> 00:38:46,660
Roswell in any shape manner or form that

806
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:48,939
as far as week were concerned that if

807
00:38:56,309 --> 00:38:52,089
there was anything legitimate anything

808
00:38:59,370 --> 00:38:56,319
genuine about the autopsy it had nothing

809
00:39:02,880 --> 00:38:59,380
to do with Roswell if anything it was a

810
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:02,890
separate event and then to their credit

811
00:39:08,459 --> 00:39:06,729
they did drop the connection to Roswell

812
00:39:10,709 --> 00:39:08,469
and then David you might recall that

813
00:39:14,429 --> 00:39:10,719
they described that it was a separate

814
00:39:18,359 --> 00:39:14,439
event that happened a month before yeah

815
00:39:22,529 --> 00:39:18,369
in June early June of 1947 not early

816
00:39:27,749 --> 00:39:22,539
July as Roswell was was called yeah and

817
00:39:32,339 --> 00:39:27,759
as the when it came out on Fox

818
00:39:35,279 --> 00:39:32,349
television and there were special

819
00:39:39,659 --> 00:39:35,289
effects artists like Stan Winston in

820
00:39:45,169 --> 00:39:39,669
Hollywood will describe that if it was a

821
00:39:49,259 --> 00:39:45,179
fake it was a good fake it it was a

822
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:49,269
special-effects level we still backed

823
00:39:58,109 --> 00:39:53,169
off we still were waiting for the

824
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:58,119
alleged photographer and then when there

825
00:40:05,179 --> 00:40:01,119
was no photographer nobody was ever ever

826
00:40:08,130 --> 00:40:05,189
presented as being the actual

827
00:40:11,249 --> 00:40:08,140
photographer would to filmed or had

828
00:40:13,019 --> 00:40:11,259
snored the autopsy footage we then

829
00:40:15,479 --> 00:40:13,029
became more and more critical you don't

830
00:40:18,839 --> 00:40:15,489
think that we just labeled the entire

831
00:40:20,999 --> 00:40:18,849
thing a hoax yeah that realized that

832
00:40:24,149 --> 00:40:21,009
there were certain techniques of the

833
00:40:27,989 --> 00:40:24,159
autopsy that were not consistent the

834
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:27,999
incisions were were atypical with the

835
00:40:33,329 --> 00:40:30,130
hand in the foreground where you do not

836
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:33,339
actually see the incision it would

837
00:40:37,620 --> 00:40:35,049
demonstrate that that was a Hollywood

838
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:37,630
technique the breathing the

839
00:40:46,860 --> 00:40:41,609
contamination uniform is that the

840
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:46,870
autopsy individuals were wearing or not

841
00:40:56,070 --> 00:40:50,730
self-contained back in 1947 there was a

842
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,080
boy every which way they were and the

843
00:41:02,160 --> 00:40:58,720
way they were plotting about being

844
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:02,170
overly graphic just pulling the internal

845
00:41:08,310 --> 00:41:03,910
organs out as though everything was

846
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:08,320
loose you know within the torso cavity

847
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:11,290
of the body that would not that would

848
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:12,970
not have been the case everything also

849
00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:18,610
would have had to have been cut away it

850
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:20,430
would have been a long drawn-out process

851
00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:25,210
they would have been much more precise

852
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:27,940
given if they were dealing with a

853
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:30,880
visitor of body an alien you know

854
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:33,310
another planet that this just wouldn't

855
00:41:38,190 --> 00:41:36,310
have been so routine and that was

856
00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:38,200
something else had bothered us so more

857
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:41,470
and more we realized that it was it was

858
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:44,500
a hoax it was a good hoax and that there

859
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:46,210
were many people that still you know

860
00:41:49,890 --> 00:41:48,370
believe in it yeah there is

861
00:41:52,590 --> 00:41:49,900
I don't know if you've my spirits bolero

862
00:41:54,180 --> 00:41:52,600
so if you these is a friend of mine he's

863
00:41:59,100 --> 00:41:54,190
done at least did a show with me on here

864
00:42:02,610 --> 00:41:59,110
but tonight with I met him when he went

865
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:02,620
forward when Philip had the conference

866
00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:03,610
in Leeds

867
00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:07,000
when he went public for the first time

868
00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:10,990
hmm and explained how you know you know

869
00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:13,990
as a magician that he put this all

870
00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:14,470
together

871
00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:18,100
yeah and it was all done he came to town

872
00:42:25,050 --> 00:42:20,740
you know in a backstreet in a back room

873
00:42:29,790 --> 00:42:25,060
in Camden Town and the fact that he was

874
00:42:33,570 --> 00:42:29,800
able to describe in detail how they did

875
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:33,580
you know they carried out each part of

876
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:37,450
the autopsy how they were able to his

877
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:38,050
heart

878
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:42,610
make it as believable as it was and yet

879
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,870
and yet it wasn't though began the

880
00:42:50,490 --> 00:42:48,640
biggest giveaway David was the fact that

881
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:50,500
it wasn't anything close to what the

882
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:52,390
witnesses at Roswell describe that was

883
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:53,890
the bigger what giveaway for you again

884
00:42:59,730 --> 00:42:57,490
and again and I will tip my hat I will

885
00:43:00,510 --> 00:42:59,740
kinda I'll always credit both Phillip

886
00:43:03,090 --> 00:43:00,520
mantel

887
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:03,100
and Michael has been at the moment we

888
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:06,760
asked them please do not draw any

889
00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:09,670
connection to Roswell with this and and

890
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:10,870
they immediately backed off they

891
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:12,160
immediately didn't they they no longer

892
00:43:18,270 --> 00:43:15,430
laminate the Roswell alien autopsy now

893
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:18,280
on the press and the skeptics love to do

894
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,310
that they they anytime something can be

895
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:23,920
disproven they will immediately toss it

896
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:27,310
into the Roswell as far as a affair

897
00:43:32,670 --> 00:43:30,970
that's yeah who helps the the the fight

898
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:32,680
the fight news story doesn't it here

899
00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:34,810
well could stroll and throw the

900
00:43:38,930 --> 00:43:36,670
narrative in other words what does

901
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:38,940
anything negative whatever there's a

902
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:41,770
witness that might be discredited or

903
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:44,650
proven who was not part of the incident

904
00:43:49,050 --> 00:43:46,690
well let's make sure that they're

905
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:49,060
forever labeled and connected the

906
00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:51,130
Roswell well sorry

907
00:43:56,220 --> 00:43:53,740
the the authorized autopsy code was

908
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:56,230
never connected to Roswell even to the

909
00:44:01,710 --> 00:43:58,570
believers it is not connected to Roswell

910
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:01,720
and again thank you to Phillip thank you

911
00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:04,150
to Michael that they too were willing to

912
00:44:08,250 --> 00:44:06,430
respect that request of our party I mean

913
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:08,260
even felt it was full bite in the first

914
00:44:12,990 --> 00:44:11,110
place anyway wasn't he so I think the

915
00:44:15,150 --> 00:44:13,000
thing that gave it away for me it would

916
00:44:16,740 --> 00:44:15,160
not so much give it away but why didn't

917
00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:16,750
they feel me in color I mean the head

918
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:19,780
they had colored cameras came in and of

919
00:44:25,770 --> 00:44:22,120
course they did and again for something

920
00:44:28,890 --> 00:44:25,780
you need for something that is you know

921
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:28,900
once in a lifetime yeah that you would

922
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:31,690
go out and make sure you did everything

923
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:35,920
to essentially freeze-frame make it that

924
00:44:40,830 --> 00:44:37,810
moment in time that would be forever

925
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:40,840
preserved and as I said it was it was it

926
00:44:46,020 --> 00:44:43,360
was too routine it was treated as though

927
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:46,030
and in a less that could be demonstrated

928
00:44:51,660 --> 00:44:49,990
that this was one of many prior to but

929
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:51,670
again we were always led to believe that

930
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:53,470
this was the first this was the first

931
00:45:00,090 --> 00:44:56,410
and you know genuine autopsy on an alien

932
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:00,100
recovered at a crash site in New Mexico

933
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:03,760
and sorry it did not measure up hmm well

934
00:45:06,990 --> 00:45:05,170
I think everyone got caught up in it and

935
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:07,000
thinking is it true is it yeah and I

936
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:09,070
think the kind of it's become legendary

937
00:45:14,070 --> 00:45:10,690
yeah there are still people out there

938
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:14,080
that believe it's real now and and if

939
00:45:16,259 --> 00:45:14,319
we're

940
00:45:19,709 --> 00:45:16,269
I believe Roswell we know there is a

941
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:19,719
genuine autopsy we know there is genuine

942
00:45:25,769 --> 00:45:23,170
footage there is film somewhere but you

943
00:45:28,589 --> 00:45:25,779
know that's why it's still able to cover

944
00:45:30,449 --> 00:45:28,599
up that after all these years even the

945
00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:30,459
president's here in the states do not

946
00:45:35,309 --> 00:45:33,190
have access that's why we have former

947
00:45:37,709 --> 00:45:35,319
presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill

948
00:45:40,289 --> 00:45:37,719
Clinton talk about how you know I had

949
00:45:42,449 --> 00:45:40,299
eight years in the Oval Office

950
00:45:43,469 --> 00:45:42,459
and I could not get the truth about

951
00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:43,479
Roswell

952
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:46,180
well if even the office of the president

953
00:45:51,390 --> 00:45:49,390
isn't afforded you know that opportunity

954
00:45:54,599 --> 00:45:51,400
then never continued to demonstrate just

955
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:54,609
how big a secret this is but isn't

956
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:56,529
Felicis somebody white behind the scenes

957
00:46:00,359 --> 00:45:57,910
pulling the strings there isn't they

958
00:46:03,809 --> 00:46:00,369
look a secret controlling government do

959
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:03,819
you think well let's I mean we we

960
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,170
talking about mj-12

961
00:46:09,630 --> 00:46:07,359
and it may be David is the case of that

962
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:09,640
whereas the documents were in genuine

963
00:46:14,779 --> 00:46:11,650
was there an oversight committee

964
00:46:18,089 --> 00:46:14,789
appointed absolutely in fact even

965
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:18,099
General Arthur exon who was at Wright

966
00:46:22,709 --> 00:46:20,890
Field in Dayton Ohio where the wreckage

967
00:46:26,849 --> 00:46:22,719
and the bodies were transferred back in

968
00:46:29,809 --> 00:46:26,859
1947 and he was a former depth former

969
00:46:33,509 --> 00:46:29,819
base commander at wright-patterson in

970
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:33,519
1964 so he was aware of the wreckage

971
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:36,880
coming there in 47 he was aware of the

972
00:46:43,739 --> 00:46:41,650
bodies coming there in 47 and the fact

973
00:46:46,799 --> 00:46:43,749
that when he worked at the Pentagon in

974
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,809
Washington he always heard of the

975
00:46:52,049 --> 00:46:49,119
Oversight Committee appointed by

976
00:46:54,839 --> 00:46:52,059
President Harry Truman to oversee the

977
00:46:57,569 --> 00:46:54,849
entire Roswell situation but they

978
00:47:02,339 --> 00:46:57,579
weren't called mj-12 a corne the general

979
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:02,349
exon they were called the unholy 13 so

980
00:47:08,809 --> 00:47:05,049
you would appoint this group of

981
00:47:12,779 --> 00:47:08,819
individuals to get you all the answers

982
00:47:15,870 --> 00:47:12,789
oversee the entire operation determine

983
00:47:19,410 --> 00:47:15,880
what we're dealing with here determine

984
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:19,420
determine the level of technology where

985
00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:20,400
are they from

986
00:47:26,999 --> 00:47:23,400
why are they here can we

987
00:47:27,749 --> 00:47:27,009
reverse-engineer the technology what can

988
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:27,759
we

989
00:47:35,189 --> 00:47:31,839
essentially determined as to is this a

990
00:47:39,019 --> 00:47:35,199
threat is this benign is this something

991
00:47:41,819 --> 00:47:39,029
malevolent is this something that we can

992
00:47:45,329 --> 00:47:41,829
assist in our own technology

993
00:47:48,469 --> 00:47:45,339
and given it has taken now all these

994
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:48,479
years it becomes a committee a group

995
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:51,729
that supersedes the office of the

996
00:47:57,479 --> 00:47:54,249
presidency here in the States so it

997
00:47:59,729 --> 00:47:57,489
continues on year after year year after

998
00:48:02,459 --> 00:47:59,739
year and it gets bigger and bigger and

999
00:48:05,099 --> 00:48:02,469
bigger and blacker and blacker and

1000
00:48:07,979 --> 00:48:05,109
deeper and deeper to the point that

1001
00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:07,989
nobody there's no accountability it

1002
00:48:13,259 --> 00:48:10,599
becomes a government within the

1003
00:48:17,399 --> 00:48:13,269
government and I believe for example

1004
00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:17,409
that when President Harry Truman a point

1005
00:48:22,769 --> 00:48:19,630
of the group and then when the next

1006
00:48:26,459 --> 00:48:22,779
President Dwight Eisenhower when he was

1007
00:48:30,299 --> 00:48:26,469
retiring and he made that prediction and

1008
00:48:33,749 --> 00:48:30,309
that concern of the military-industrial

1009
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:33,759
complex that that's who we should be

1010
00:48:40,019 --> 00:48:36,249
concerned of that's what we should watch

1011
00:48:42,689 --> 00:48:40,029
that is the United States military does

1012
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:42,699
not manufacture anything and I know it's

1013
00:48:48,359 --> 00:48:45,369
the same in the UK everything is

1014
00:48:51,439 --> 00:48:48,369
contracted out to the private sector for

1015
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:51,449
every ship every plane every tank and

1016
00:48:58,169 --> 00:48:55,119
those private corporations in providing

1017
00:49:00,479 --> 00:48:58,179
for our respective militaries there are

1018
00:49:02,669 --> 00:49:00,489
many ways calling the shots they're

1019
00:49:04,919 --> 00:49:02,679
dictating to the military now this is

1020
00:49:07,319 --> 00:49:04,929
what you want this is what we can make

1021
00:49:10,009 --> 00:49:07,329
you this is what we can invent for you

1022
00:49:14,099 --> 00:49:10,019
but you will take what we give you and

1023
00:49:18,589 --> 00:49:14,109
as a result they become almost the

1024
00:49:21,779 --> 00:49:18,599
secret government in that record yeah

1025
00:49:23,729 --> 00:49:21,789
the fate pull some story how do you have

1026
00:49:26,339 --> 00:49:23,739
you look at that because he wrote the

1027
00:49:29,579 --> 00:49:26,349
book that they after Rose will very much

1028
00:49:31,649 --> 00:49:29,589
goes into the reverse engineering and of

1029
00:49:33,709 --> 00:49:31,659
course it was correct in all the

1030
00:49:36,179 --> 00:49:33,719
attempts at the reverse engineering and

1031
00:49:40,609 --> 00:49:36,189
he was absolutely correct

1032
00:49:41,730 --> 00:49:40,619
in how they would have assimilated this

1033
00:49:44,550 --> 00:49:41,740
record

1034
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:44,560
this technology into the private sector

1035
00:49:52,770 --> 00:49:49,630
through the through the last 30 years of

1036
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:52,780
our investigation we've had firsthand

1037
00:49:59,060 --> 00:49:56,410
witnesses at RAND Corporation at the

1038
00:50:03,390 --> 00:49:59,070
bureau of standards at patel institute

1039
00:50:05,790 --> 00:50:03,400
at General Electric at the Tao Institute

1040
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:05,800
while receiving wreckage from Roswell

1041
00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:09,490
for their testing their analysis with

1042
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:12,070
the hope that somebody as they would say

1043
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:15,310
would find the on button somebody would

1044
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:18,400
be able to actually you know crack the

1045
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:21,520
code so to speak and figure out how this

1046
00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:24,640
thing flies and here we are after all

1047
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:28,030
this time and I'm still convinced they

1048
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:30,790
still can't find the on button they

1049
00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:32,770
still were still flying

1050
00:50:37,470 --> 00:50:35,950
you know rockets and jets and so Corsa

1051
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:37,480
was correct about that

1052
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:40,000
the only thing Corsa was not correct is

1053
00:50:45,570 --> 00:50:42,910
that he relied on people who were not

1054
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:45,580
legitimate to provide them with the

1055
00:50:51,690 --> 00:50:48,250
scenario of what transpired at the time

1056
00:50:54,359 --> 00:50:51,700
of the incident we learned afterwards

1057
00:50:58,170 --> 00:50:54,369
that Corso made a couple of research

1058
00:51:00,960 --> 00:50:58,180
trips to Roswell before the book was

1059
00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:00,970
compiled and then written and he

1060
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:03,640
unfortunately relied on the wrong people

1061
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:06,730
and putting together the chain of events

1062
00:51:14,550 --> 00:51:11,770
he was correct about the analysis and

1063
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:14,560
the efforts in testing and determining

1064
00:51:21,810 --> 00:51:18,010
the pedigree of the wreckage but as to

1065
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:21,820
the chronology of what happened and who

1066
00:51:27,780 --> 00:51:23,650
was involved he relied on the wrong

1067
00:51:29,790 --> 00:51:27,790
people and so we would have and we did

1068
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:29,800
correct him about that but he ran out of

1069
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:33,130
time too as we know yeah that's because

1070
00:51:38,130 --> 00:51:34,810
he had quite an important job in the

1071
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:38,140
Pentagon's row didn't he yes he did but

1072
00:51:43,530 --> 00:51:41,170
he also he only retired you know a

1073
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:43,540
lieutenant colonel so he would have far

1074
00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:46,930
from had full access to a lot of update

1075
00:51:54,030 --> 00:51:51,430
I screwed yeah hmm Wow find someone of

1076
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:54,040
the skeptics is is Colonel John

1077
00:51:58,260 --> 00:51:55,450
Alexander

1078
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:58,270
over here in the States and I always

1079
00:52:02,970 --> 00:52:00,400
remind John John you're only a colonel

1080
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:02,980
you'll hardly would have had access that

1081
00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:06,130
a general or a four-star general would

1082
00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:08,380
have had and we have a good laugh over

1083
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:11,500
there I suppose we will to touch on the

1084
00:52:14,339 --> 00:52:13,119
on the bubblers our thing I mean I don't

1085
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,349
know that all you want to get into that

1086
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:16,240
we've already got about four five six

1087
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:18,910
minutes or so seven minutes um do you

1088
00:52:25,859 --> 00:52:22,510
think he's on the level war I accept

1089
00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:25,869
that that bob lazar was witness to

1090
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:28,630
something and I say that from a

1091
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:31,930
different vantage point and that through

1092
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:35,710
the years we've had inside sources who

1093
00:52:40,410 --> 00:52:37,930
prior you know previously worked at

1094
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:40,420
Project Blue Book for example the most

1095
00:52:46,049 --> 00:52:42,940
famous of the three official United

1096
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:46,059
States Air Force investigations and they

1097
00:52:51,450 --> 00:52:48,390
would describe to us that they were

1098
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:51,460
investigators for project Bluebook not

1099
00:52:55,770 --> 00:52:53,680
at wright-patterson in Dayton Ohio but

1100
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,780
they would be at different locations at

1101
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:57,760
different bases throughout the states

1102
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:00,400
and they would describe how they would

1103
00:53:08,010 --> 00:53:04,569
be taken into a room a screening room

1104
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,020
and they would be shown a film footage a

1105
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:10,960
projector would start rolling and they

1106
00:53:16,289 --> 00:53:12,970
would be the only other person in the

1107
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:16,299
room aside from this doctor or someone

1108
00:53:20,220 --> 00:53:18,130
in a white smock with a clipboard and

1109
00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:20,230
the film would start rolling and they

1110
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:22,240
would watch what would appear to be you

1111
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:24,130
know gun camera footage and all at once

1112
00:53:29,549 --> 00:53:26,530
there would be a flying saucer broad

1113
00:53:31,410 --> 00:53:29,559
daylight a dull disc on maneuvering and

1114
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:31,420
not performing you know the aircraft

1115
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:33,910
flying rings around them literally and

1116
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:37,839
the person standing there not watching

1117
00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:40,720
the film would watch this investigator

1118
00:53:45,630 --> 00:53:43,900
and what write down notes as to the

1119
00:53:49,470 --> 00:53:45,640
manner in which they behaved the man in

1120
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:49,480
which they reacted so we we saw it as

1121
00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:51,760
being a trauma lunes know okay let's see

1122
00:53:56,450 --> 00:53:53,710
how they react to the real thing

1123
00:53:58,920 --> 00:53:56,460
well then we would have a subsequent

1124
00:54:01,950 --> 00:53:58,930
investigators who would talk about being

1125
00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:01,960
taken to an underground room and they

1126
00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:07,260
would be taken to a room where a train a

1127
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:08,830
stretcher would be

1128
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:11,290
and there would be a cadaver there would

1129
00:54:18,450 --> 00:54:15,760
be a body and once again a doctor and a

1130
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:18,460
smart and write and observe how they

1131
00:54:23,550 --> 00:54:20,890
would react to it as though they would

1132
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:23,560
panic as though they would faint from

1133
00:54:29,790 --> 00:54:25,930
shock or if they were just mesmerized

1134
00:54:33,180 --> 00:54:29,800
and just totally enthralled you know by

1135
00:54:36,510 --> 00:54:33,190
what they were observing so continuing

1136
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:36,520
that I see it possible that Lazar may

1137
00:54:44,730 --> 00:54:40,000
have also had such an opportunity he was

1138
00:54:47,730 --> 00:54:44,740
allowed to see a ship a recovered craft

1139
00:54:50,340 --> 00:54:47,740
from another crash retrieval incident

1140
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:50,350
but the problem I have is as

1141
00:54:55,170 --> 00:54:53,440
whistleblowers go and if we cite like

1142
00:55:00,030 --> 00:54:55,180
Edward Snowden here in the States

1143
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:00,040
who had to flee the country Lazar was

1144
00:55:05,070 --> 00:55:03,280
able to talk about this publicly it

1145
00:55:08,010 --> 00:55:05,080
didn't appear as though he was in fear

1146
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:08,020
for his life he described all this and

1147
00:55:14,610 --> 00:55:11,470
no one stopped him now was it intended

1148
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:14,620
that he would discredit himself by just

1149
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:17,920
describing such an unbelievable story

1150
00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:21,610
was Lazar spreading misinformation in

1151
00:55:27,060 --> 00:55:24,030
the same vein as the mj-12 documents

1152
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:27,070
were spreading this information was

1153
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:30,400
intended to muddy the waters or was it

1154
00:55:37,770 --> 00:55:33,760
again a trial balloon let's see on the

1155
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:37,780
public reaction from swatching film to

1156
00:55:42,330 --> 00:55:39,550
watch a scene a cadaver

1157
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:42,340
they're now describing working at area

1158
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:45,900
51 and actually seeing a recovered craft

1159
00:55:54,780 --> 00:55:51,310
so my judgment my my position of Bob

1160
00:55:57,540 --> 00:55:54,790
Lazar remains totally fluent I'm willing

1161
00:56:01,050 --> 00:55:57,550
to accept that he saw something whether

1162
00:56:03,630 --> 00:56:01,060
it was legit or not time will tell but

1163
00:56:06,780 --> 00:56:03,640
I'm not so quick as to discredit

1164
00:56:09,150 --> 00:56:06,790
somebody just because their backgrounds

1165
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:09,160
just because all the numbers don't add

1166
00:56:15,570 --> 00:56:12,550
up because again we're dealing with a

1167
00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:15,580
phenomenon that God knows the numbers

1168
00:56:21,810 --> 00:56:19,840
don't add up much we have to a fluid we

1169
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:21,820
just can't as they would say throughout

1170
00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:22,660
the baby with

1171
00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:25,270
bathwater just because we don't like the

1172
00:56:32,340 --> 00:56:29,140
way it appears with sounds yeah I mean I

1173
00:56:33,690 --> 00:56:32,350
have to say I can't just believe Bob

1174
00:56:36,090 --> 00:56:33,700
Lazar for about 20 years

1175
00:56:37,770 --> 00:56:36,100
just maybe just under 20 years and it

1176
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:37,780
suddenly just recently with all this new

1177
00:56:41,370 --> 00:56:39,240
film that's coming out and everything

1178
00:56:43,980 --> 00:56:41,380
I'm sort of having my doubts because

1179
00:56:45,450 --> 00:56:43,990
I've seen quite a few false things but

1180
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:45,460
you know things that don't add up like

1181
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:47,920
you say and so I don't know I'll come on

1182
00:56:52,770 --> 00:56:49,330
kind of fit not sitting on a fence like

1183
00:56:55,740 --> 00:56:52,780
you really now I have high respect for

1184
00:56:59,370 --> 00:56:55,750
George now the fact that George Knapp is

1185
00:57:02,850 --> 00:56:59,380
one of our only media one of our only

1186
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:02,860
journalists here in the states that is a

1187
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:05,770
go-to person with for anyone who has a

1188
00:57:13,410 --> 00:57:10,030
legitimate UFO experience and and George

1189
00:57:15,210 --> 00:57:13,420
I mean he has remained a staunch

1190
00:57:17,130 --> 00:57:15,220
supporter he's the one who broke the

1191
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:17,140
story originally a Bob Lazar and

1192
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:19,570
affected thirty years later he is still

1193
00:57:24,540 --> 00:57:22,270
a hundred percent behind George

1194
00:57:28,020 --> 00:57:24,550
as far as George Knapp one percent

1195
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:28,030
behind Bob Lazar and to me that's worth

1196
00:57:35,340 --> 00:57:32,410
a lot more than the fact that certain

1197
00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:35,350
things don't add up because the cosmic

1198
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:37,600
because George Knapp as a true

1199
00:57:43,650 --> 00:57:40,650
legitimate journalists as a as a newsman

1200
00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:43,660
he is done more to investigate Bob Lazar

1201
00:57:48,750 --> 00:57:46,300
than anyone and if he stands with them

1202
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:48,760
I'm still willing to reserve judgment

1203
00:57:54,090 --> 00:57:51,610
absolutely yeah I mean the man yeah I'll

1204
00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:54,100
have to look more into it obviously but

1205
00:57:57,690 --> 00:57:56,080
anyway this has been fantastic Don

1206
00:58:00,900 --> 00:57:57,700
though thank you so much for giving up

1207
00:58:02,430 --> 00:58:00,910
your time to come on here maybe I can

1208
00:58:08,610 --> 00:58:02,440
get you back on again sometime when you

1209
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:08,620
when the film comes out and certainly we

1210
00:58:11,810 --> 00:58:10,090
hope you come back to the States

1211
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:11,820
you come back to Roswell so yeah I

1212
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:14,110
really do keep saying every you know go

1213
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:16,480
get back please funding the funding the

1214
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:20,650
pennies to do it we've that's the one

1215
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:22,660
thing about investigation as well yes

1216
00:58:29,460 --> 00:58:26,230
it's it said the the cost and expense of

1217
00:58:31,710 --> 00:58:29,470
one's own lifestyle that your follow G

1218
00:58:34,350 --> 00:58:31,720
is always existed on a shoestring as it

1219
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:34,360
certainly has my friend but anyway I do

1220
00:58:37,859 --> 00:58:35,920
hope to speak to you again

1221
00:58:39,780 --> 00:58:37,869
been a pleasure and once again my

1222
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:39,790
sincere condolences for the loss of Stan

1223
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:42,270
was a great loss to us all but you

1224
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:44,319
especially because he was a good friend

1225
00:58:53,339 --> 00:58:50,410
of yours so Stan would wishes to end the

1226
00:58:56,339 --> 00:58:53,349
fight yeah

1227
00:58:58,440 --> 00:58:56,349
come on David where all the others we

1228
00:59:01,319 --> 00:58:58,450
will we will certainly perish with Stan

1229
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:01,329
I started in many ways thank you very

1230
00:59:04,319 --> 00:59:02,650
much Don it's been a great pleasure

1231
00:59:06,180 --> 00:59:04,329
speaking to you and I really do hope

1232
00:59:09,210 --> 00:59:06,190
hope your stay in South sure we'll speak

1233
00:59:11,339 --> 00:59:09,220
again but you take care of yourself

1234
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:11,349
Thank You Don right you've been

1235
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:12,910
listening to the paranormal UK radio

1236
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:15,670
network paranormal dimensions I'm David

1237
00:59:20,940 --> 00:59:17,200
Young good boy thank you for this tea

1238
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:53,890
[Music]